Interview: Softee’s Queer Pop Hit ‘Isn’t Enough’ Remix by Macy Rodman

Softee's new album 'Natural' is queer pop perfection, raising dopamine levels across the country with danceable bops that track the evolution of a breakup into an unexpected new romance.

Today, album stand-out track "Isn't Enough" gets a hyper-pop remix thanks to fellow queer pop groundbreaker Macy Rodman. Today they share a conversation with WUSSY about their love of 00s R&B, how they navigate their way through music, their thoughts on “gear culture”, and how queerness intersects with the pop genre over time.

Softee (Photo: Morgan Winston)

Softee: Wow, Macy, it's our first time actually talking and I'm so stoked. 

Macy: Same. I loved your album so much and I was so happy to work on a remix. 

Softee: The remix is so good. It's so unexpected, what you did with the song. This is actually not our first time meeting, but you wouldn't remember this because this is so random. But I became a fan of you back in 2021. I was in this Bushwick bar with my friends and hearing this music, and I'm just like, "what the, what?" Every single song. Someone was DJing, and spoiler: It was you! You were playing some hyper pop, but you then you would go really niche eighties. It was just the most crazy cocktail of music. I felt like this person is downloaded into my brain. And I went up and said "Who are you?" and then followed you and started becoming obsessed. Who is this person that is gets me?

Macy: I've definitely had that many times where I'm just like, “what the hell?” and feel so connected, and sometimes it's the opposite. Sometimes it's totally unbearable and it's just like a bad date. I don't vibe with any of this, you know? [laughs] But tell, what were your inspirations for this record? I love how clear all the sounds are, and your voice is obviously spectacular, but it just has this really clear, nice tone that in some spots are hyperpop-ish, but it also has this kind of smooth R&B thing to it as well. 

Softee: Thank you — it definitely has lots of different pockets and definitely is intentionally more R&B-focused. That just came out of me and my co-producer Jeremy (sweetbbyj). It’s really a fusion of both of our tastes. I'm more of an electronic pop sensibility and he's more the R&B influence. When those two things came together, it's just really satisfying. We wanted to give you a 90s/early 00s-vibe, which is what we are both obsessed with, especially at the time of making the record. I think like the first couple demos we were thinking a Justin Timberlake Timbaland record. I feel like there's like so many different references — a lot of the stuff that Jeremy's playing with is more obscure gospel music and I'm pulling a lot of references from like early 00s pop like Nelly Furtado, Robyn, Beyonce & Destiny's Child. 

Macy: Kind of proto hyperpop because a lot of that 00s R&B had an experimental element to it. Like that Janet Jackson “All for You” record — I always think of that as such a proto hyperpop record, you know?

Softee: Yeah, completely. So what about you? What is your writing process? Do you start with production?

Macy: If I'm starting a record, usually I want a general feeling that extends to every part of the record. Like a movie or even a genre as a whole. It's usually like some kind of film or films. And that gives me a lot of freedom to move around. Topic-wise, it gives me a time period, a place to pull references from. I want the vibe to inform the lyrics.

Softee: So you kind of start with visual references — very much like a story, a concept.

Macy: That’s what is really fun for me — it’s world-building. 

Softee: I can hear that in your sound. That makes a lot of sense. 

Macy: On the upcoming record that I'm working on right now, it's femme-fatale, like an erotic thriller, but also the girl that works at Blockbuster who's renting out the erotic thriller 

Softee: Oh, I love that so much. That's amazing. Yeah. How and when did you kind of start producing? When did “Macy Rodman” happen?

Macy: I went to fashion school and dropped out and was like, “what am I gonna do?” I had access to all the computer labs at Parsons and they also have a music program. So I had access to like keyboards and all this stuff. I had a friend teaching me a little bit and then I would just go in there and figure everything out as much as I could. I would spend all day in the computer lab that's kind of how that happened. And then I started DJing, in drag. And everything started to coalesce, was like, “okay, let's like combine these things.” What about you? How did you start performing?

Softee: I went to acting school and I started doing plays after school. After I graduated, I just felt blocked in some way. I knew that I needed another creative outlet that wasn't just acting because unless you're cast in something, there's not much you can do outside of auditioning. I wanted that “all the world's a stage” approach, right? So I started performing and writing as myself but still something was blocking me. I couldn’t take myself seriously. I then just had this switch one day where I was like, “I'm gonna start trying to perform as like something else.” Give myself a name and an image I create and like just do something so silly. It really did start off as an experiment. It felt like drag at first, for sure. A persona. And I made all these demos, as “not me” and that was kind of a security blanket for me cuz, like “oh well, it’s just for fun.”

Macy: I highly recommend everyone consider changing their name. You're right, it's so freeing. Doing something with your government name sometimes feels like you're signing a contract and everything is so final.

Softee: Yes. It's so true. But that’s how it started. Just a bunch of demos and friends teaching me how to produce and I realize I had been producing all along on Garage Band, which I had been doing since high school, but I just didn't know that was called “producing.” I realized that it actually isn't so impossible to do this myself and not have to go through somebody else to make my vision come true.

Macy: That’s one of the great acts of bullshit in like the music scene… the great conspiracy to convince femmes and queer people that they're not doing it right, or that they don't know enough to get stuff done or that they need some kind of an intermediary. I love collaboration. I love a lot of the techno boys that I've worked with. But there is also this like conspiracy to make people think that they're not doing things correctly. You need to trust your point of view.  

Softee: Right! I deeply know what I'm doing and like what I'm doing. It's unique to me. And I don't have to do it the way “these dudes” do it or tell me to do it. I was actually having this conversation yesterday with a couple queer/femme producers about how the least interesting conversations are conversations about gear. It sometimes feels like all these straight men want to talk about is gear and the cool shit they have. That’s great. But at the same there are so many more interesting things to talk about when it comes to our craft. I'm actually a little suspicious of people with too much gear…

Macy: I'm like, “you know you can do that on the computer?”

Softee: This just proves you have a lot of disposable income. It doesn’t prove how good you are or talented or anything.

Macy: I have my MIDI keyboard and a good mic. I am trying to branch out so that I can do more stuff live. Sometimes it's not great to like have to play with a backing track. It can confining. As I get further along, I think it would be nice to have a little more improvisation.

Macy Rodman (Photo: Pvssyheaven)

Softee: I feel like that's a whole, even different conversation, because I'm still very much in the process of figuring out. I'm in, like iteration 17 of my live show. It’s constantly changing and evolving as your sound is evolving and changing. 

Macy: It’s really fun, but it's hard in this genre that we're in. It's a hard balance. You want to sound like the record but then you also want it to be live, and then, at least for me, you also don't wanna be stuck behind like a computer.

Softee: That's my whole issue. The idea of being stuck behind a keyboard or a beat machine actually sounds like hell live for me. I wanna be with the people. That's my joy of live performance -- connecting with the audience. 

Macy: I think that's also why pop music & electronic music feels like the music of access. The possibilities are infinite and that's why it's so much of it comes from clubs. The community element is essential, sharing tracks, people making edits of your stuff. And in American music all these sounds come from the innovations of queer, Black DJs.

Softee: A lot of this stuff comes out of a scene. Especially now with hyper-pop — that was from a queer underground scene.

Macy: If you have a laptop and an internet connection, you can, collaborate with your friends and upload your whole catalog.

Softee: It’s been interesting to watch. There are all these different subsets of pop music, obviously. But “queer pop” has become more mainstream. I think in a lot of ways it’s really positive. There are queer popstars left and right now. 

Macy: Yeah, we don't necessarily have these four or five massive stars anymore. It's a bunch of smaller stars. It gives smaller artists the chance to rise up a bit more and have a little more impact without necessarily having to get Michael Jackson or Madonna-level huge.

Softee: Switching to another section of our work, how are you finding touring lately?

Macy: I did tour last year of the West Coast and then went East and down South. And that was right about when all of the anti-trans stuff really kicked into high gear. We did Baltimore, North Carolina, Nashville, Atlanta, New Orleans. I have to admit I was kinda scared. We were driving, and I get nervous traveling through rural areas because I grew up rural and I know how people can be. But of course everywhere we went, there were thriving queer DIY scenes and it was absolutely fab. It’s just so terrifying when you see these cartoonishly barbaric laws passing in these states. It really made me think ‘Oh this is possible anywhere, none of us are safe.’

Softee: I haven't really toured in the South at all, but I have some similar feelings. I also have reservations largely based around the way the media portrays what is going on there.

Macy: The United States is wild. What do we do? All you can do is just like keep existing. Keep making stuff. It’s sounds corny, but what choice do we have? And as censorship rises, it's going to be harder and harder to take action. A lot of times all we can do is just live an as an act of protest.

Softee: It is important to not take any of this for granted, even though right now it is scary with TikTok and the internet and these bills are coming into action.

Macy: Have you run into anything like that YouTube? 

Softee: I guess technically you can put almost anything on YouTube, but it's not going to be monetized or it will be behind an age restriction wall. With my last three music videos, there were issues of one kind or another. Drug use, smoking a cigar, anything that could be psychologically distressing.

Macy: Yeah. And the visuals may get censored, but like kids are going to share the music that they like. Regardless where you hear it… the kids will share it. I remember that My Chemical Romance song (“You Know What They Do to Guys Like Us in Prison”) where they're talking about fucking other guys in prison.

Softee: Just like Katy Perry’s “I Kissed a Girl.” God, that was such a moment for me. I remember being in seventh grade, and getting exposed to that in my little Midwest town. A lot of people were very scandalized by it. But the fact that it was even in the zeitgeist, being played on the radio. Obviously outwardly I was like “that's disgusting!” but secretly inside I was screaming!

Macy: And that's also for all these stars like Katy Perry or Madonna or Lady Gaga. They’re complicated figures because we as kids were able to look at them and kind of read between the lines. Infer meaning. And it did make an impact. I don't necessarily think that Katy Perry engaging in queer sex or anything like that, the fact that it was out there at all was helpful and it is mind-expanding.

Softee: That why I love pop music as a whole. There is a certain form of hypnotism because it hits your dopamine centers first. It hits your pleasure centers first, so it gets you dancing. It gets you excited, it gets your heart rate going faster, and you're feeling the emotion first before you're intellectualizing anything. Then you're invested, you look up the lyrics and really start to like metabolize it. And I think that's why there were so many “queer-coded” artists growing up. I have been profoundly impacted by just their existence and them just making music. It’s so inspiring and empowering… it makes you feel something. It hits you at your core and then you just wanna be like that and you wanna feel like that more. That was Prince for me growing up for sure.

Macy: Prince is so interesting because straight people were so okay with it. It was this nuanced funny example of total non-binary fluidity: ‘I'm not a woman / I'm not a man / I am something that you'll never understand.”

Softee: He's just a rock star. 

Macy: Annie Lennox and Freddie Mercury too.

Softee: Yes, absolutely. Because all of them were just undeniably magnetic. They do all these things unapologetically, and straight people were accepting it on some level because it's just the talent and the openness was just so undeniable, and there was this thought that “oh, they’re an artist.” But as a queer person digesting that, it's a whole other meaning. Just seeing that be allowed in that arena.

Macy: It gives people a reference point. Like, you're not a total alien from outer space. There is something that you can connect to and have positive feelings with. With visibility now, if you’re a queer person or a trans person, and you are an artist, you're putting your image and identity on the line. We still have to exist in our communities that are not gated. It's this weird trade off as queer artists. Visibility can be good. But now a lot of these like right wing nut jobs are furious about it. With a lot of visibility comes a lot of reactions. I wonder what the next cycle will be like for the young kids. Now you have people in the mainstream like Lil Nas X and Ice Spice and Kim Petras who are explicitly queer and trans. I think that can only be a good thing for the kids coming up to be aware and talking about this openly. 

Softee: That's a really good point. Observing the way the world will continue to react to a lot of popstars and public figures living openly queer lifestyles unapologetically…

Macy: I just think it'll be so interesting to see how it all plays out.